- Continuation.....
- Don Tan They, the Pharisees, had more than one opportunity to get rid of him . Read for yourself....
8 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.
4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”
6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.
9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”
11 “No, Lord,” she said.
And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.” ~ John
What was he writing on the sand that convicted them of their 'Chet'... ? - MB They have more than 1 opportunity to stone him to death and they choose (or “choose”) not to, so?
They (the Pharisees) still can choose not to stone him to death on the spot and let the Rome do it, what is the problem? I don’t see any problem at all. The purpose still achieve anyway – which is death.
As I stated again (and yourself stated also), they (the Pharisees) were able to stones those adulterers and others offenders publicly, why are they afraid to stone Jesus publicly (when they can stones others with no problem)?
This is not about hypocrisy when others are being stoned publicly bt their hand and yet they choosen not to stoned jesus.
If I translate – why the Pharisees afraid of the so called “dirty hand” when they indeed have no problem on stoning others offenders publicly.
Here is not about to stain with dirty hand or not to stain with dirty hand. If they (the Pharisees) really afraid of stain with dirty hand, they will not stones the others offenders as well because that is consider dirty.
So, when you said “if they were stoning adulterers ,...., left, right and centre... What do you think there were going to do to Heretics, Sorcerers and Others.”…..definitely my answer is they stones them to death with no problem at all.
And you stated “How did Yeshua slip away in the midst of them...... hmmmm” – the answer is very simple which I stated in my previous post, here
“The Jews might not be able to track him at that time for whatever reason, or have no real intention of direct stoning him to death on the spot or to kill him by their own hand (like you said – “avoid” hand dirty), but still he get killed.
“Avoid” dirty hand is not the case here for jesus death since they can stones those adulterers to death etc…..why are they afraid to stone jesus when they can stone the others with no problem?
(stoning thing is not apply in today world anymore since the temple is not stood.)
The case here is that the Rome is in controlled of almost everything at that time especially criminal punishment.
Or (just maybe) the Jews are afraid to stone jesus (due to his public figure, the influence, maybe) because the Rome is so in love (“in love”) with him and ended up made him an idol.
After he got killed on the cross, the Rome made him an idol 40 years later to create a religion called Christianity so that they can oppressed the Jews who are still residing there that time.”
When you wrote these "If they were stoning adulterers ,...., left, right and centre... What do you think there were going to do to Heretics, Sorcerers and Others. How did Yeshua slip away in the midst of them...... hmmmm"
...you already given the answer.
Why they can stones other with no problems and when comes to jesus, they somehow tried to avoid stoning him to death? You already given yourself answer here. Very clear, when stones others are not a problem at all, when comes to jesus, they somehow not so interested and not so keen to stones him. And they (pharisees) precipitated to let the palite (Rome) to do it.
Line 18. “And the high holy ones will receive the kingdom, and they will inherit the kingdom forever and to all eternity.”
The high holy ones are not identified — but as you read through the chapter which outlines pretty much all of history it will become obvious that this is Israel. The Jews.
Read through to line 23 — after war after war and earthly kingdom after earthly kingdom “So he (the angel) said (to Daniel), “The fourth beast [represents] a fourth kingdom [that] will be on the earth, which will be different from all the kingdoms, and it will devour the whole land and trample it and crush it.”
Again — EARTHLY Kingdom. . . not Jesus who was never a ruler of an earthly kingdom. . .
10 kingdoms sprout from this last kingdom (which was Rome — and we are still under Western domination aka Rome — the Christians).
Next is perhaps one of the only true prophecies about Christianity in the Jewish bible: “25. And he will speak words against the Most High, and he will oppress the high holy ones, and he will think to change the times and the law, and they will be delivered into his hand until a time, two times, and half a time.”
The Christians oppressed the Jews (Holocaust, Pogroms, Spanish Inquisition — it continues to this very day when the United States excluded Israel from a counter terrorist summit). . .
The Christians changed the times (moving the Sabbath to Sunday and changing the calendars) changing the law (Paul and saying no one needs to keep the mitzvot) — but the end of the Christians will come at the hand of G-d, too. . .
Line 26 “And the judgment shall be established, and they will remove his dominion to be destroyed and annihilated until the end.”
And when this last of the kingdoms of Rome (the Christian kingdom) is vanquished by G-d Himself the true messiah will come and as Daniel states 27 - “And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under all the heavens will be given to the people of the high holy ones; its kingdom is a perpetual kingdom, and all dominions will serve and obey [it].” — the messianic era will finally arrive, Baruch HaShem may it come speedily and in our days!
The high holy ones are not identified — but as you read through the chapter which outlines pretty much all of history it will become obvious that this is Israel. The Jews.
Read through to line 23 — after war after war and earthly kingdom after earthly kingdom “So he (the angel) said (to Daniel), “The fourth beast [represents] a fourth kingdom [that] will be on the earth, which will be different from all the kingdoms, and it will devour the whole land and trample it and crush it.”
Again — EARTHLY Kingdom. . . not Jesus who was never a ruler of an earthly kingdom. . .
10 kingdoms sprout from this last kingdom (which was Rome — and we are still under Western domination aka Rome — the Christians).
Next is perhaps one of the only true prophecies about Christianity in the Jewish bible: “25. And he will speak words against the Most High, and he will oppress the high holy ones, and he will think to change the times and the law, and they will be delivered into his hand until a time, two times, and half a time.”
The Christians oppressed the Jews (Holocaust, Pogroms, Spanish Inquisition — it continues to this very day when the United States excluded Israel from a counter terrorist summit). . .
The Christians changed the times (moving the Sabbath to Sunday and changing the calendars) changing the law (Paul and saying no one needs to keep the mitzvot) — but the end of the Christians will come at the hand of G-d, too. . .
Line 26 “And the judgment shall be established, and they will remove his dominion to be destroyed and annihilated until the end.”
And when this last of the kingdoms of Rome (the Christian kingdom) is vanquished by G-d Himself the true messiah will come and as Daniel states 27 - “And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under all the heavens will be given to the people of the high holy ones; its kingdom is a perpetual kingdom, and all dominions will serve and obey [it].” — the messianic era will finally arrive, Baruch HaShem may it come speedily and in our days!
MB About this “What was he writing on the sand that convicted them of their 'Chet'... ?”
I believe you are referring to John 8:6-11, "They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”
What was he writing on the sand? I do not know. But when jesus said on John 8:7 ……”He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
He is actually referred/reminding them that in Ecclesiastes 7:20 “Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins.”
With that, “9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.”
The funny thing is that when missionaries tried to says jesus is a sinless man, and used the reversed effect to question back the older (from christianity view, they - the older are not so sinless, only jesus is a sinless lamb) -- here again proof that jesus is not a sinless man because he did not stone the woman himself.
According to missionaries, since jesus is so righteous and following god laws, Jesus supposed to know torah that adulterer must stone to death at that time.
Just a brief idea, in Judaism, celibacy (conventional conservatism so to speak, I am not sure if that is the correct term) is not a way to practice.
Divorcing in Judaism is very common, not encourage, but common.
In Christianity is way opposite. They have to force keep the marriage and divorce is a super big thing in conventional Europe way back then, even when it comes to a point that you really need to divorce to settle thing up u still have to tried to keep.
I can give you example but not a good one, just a brief not so perfect example - - if a husband cheated on his wife, the wife has the right to divorced her husband because if she continues – this is adultery in a married life. This apply to vice versa too. A brief idea that celibacy is not a way to practice.
I believe you are referring to John 8:6-11, "They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”
What was he writing on the sand? I do not know. But when jesus said on John 8:7 ……”He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
He is actually referred/reminding them that in Ecclesiastes 7:20 “Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins.”
With that, “9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.”
The funny thing is that when missionaries tried to says jesus is a sinless man, and used the reversed effect to question back the older (from christianity view, they - the older are not so sinless, only jesus is a sinless lamb) -- here again proof that jesus is not a sinless man because he did not stone the woman himself.
According to missionaries, since jesus is so righteous and following god laws, Jesus supposed to know torah that adulterer must stone to death at that time.
Just a brief idea, in Judaism, celibacy (conventional conservatism so to speak, I am not sure if that is the correct term) is not a way to practice.
Divorcing in Judaism is very common, not encourage, but common.
In Christianity is way opposite. They have to force keep the marriage and divorce is a super big thing in conventional Europe way back then, even when it comes to a point that you really need to divorce to settle thing up u still have to tried to keep.
I can give you example but not a good one, just a brief not so perfect example - - if a husband cheated on his wife, the wife has the right to divorced her husband because if she continues – this is adultery in a married life. This apply to vice versa too. A brief idea that celibacy is not a way to practice.
MB, to throw the first stone you need to be a witness. Yehshua was not present when the adulterous crime was committed.
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