It is my pleasure to continue the conversation with Iskandar. Please don't take any of my
statements personally.
4-Once we can come out of the control of our ‘ medieval church’,which
we will eventually, let me assure you how it is ready to do what it has
delivered to mankind before.The principles behind the religion of the
true God is far too superior for any man made religion with strange God
concepts can ever hope to match.
I hope, perhaps Islam will somehow metamorphose from a 'medieval church' to a 'true God'
religion before a mega-conflict occurs in the middle-east.
St Paul said ' 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.~ Galatians 5.
Islam's implied Law Consciousness and disputes over the hadith as seen on Dr. Mahathirs Blog, i think, is why Shiite's are murdering Sunnis, and vice-verse.
I think i know where you are going with the 'strange God concepts' remark. You are implying that Islam is superior in its Mono-theistic Concept of Allah and the concept of 'Shirk' (Idolatory). Let me ask you this question. Do you believe that in your heart or did your Ulama, Quran or Islamic commentary tell you what to believe? If God is devoid of complexity, this raises other issues. Let me demonstrate the corollary. If God is one of one. How does he communicate directly to Abraham eg.
17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” ~ Genesis 17
to Moses eg.
14 God replied to Moses, "I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you." ~ Exodus 3
while in the meantime. Who is in Heaven seated at the throne commanding the Angels, Universe, etc,etc,etc while this is taking place. I did not read any Bible commentary
nor did i ask my Pastor to get this revelation.
nor did i ask my Pastor to get this revelation.
There is however, a creature. You know who it is, that is, purely a mono-theistic being. If pure
mono-theism is the criteria of who you Worship. You are, threading, on dangerous ground.
5-The ugly side of Islam now is due to this corruption that most
indoctrinated Muslims will not see and instead want to keep it going
forever for their salvation.This is what indoctrination is supposed do
to people.
This is what i know of Islam from its earliest inception and continue to learn more. The 'Prophet' pbuh made many praiseworthy statements. He also killed a lot of tribes and made a lot of 'if you submit or else statements' to the detriment of Jews and Christians in the Quran. It can be said, similarly of God in the Old Testament. Those cultures were wiped out. One can
debate the efficacy or the morality in another debate. So, the Quran specifically targets Jews and Christians in this age for judgement. There is no mention of Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists etc being marked for 'special treatment'. Muslim Apologists love to quote the praiseworthy
statements. They however, fail to reveal what 'nasikh al mansour','al-takiya' or 'muruna' is about.
debate the efficacy or the morality in another debate. So, the Quran specifically targets Jews and Christians in this age for judgement. There is no mention of Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists etc being marked for 'special treatment'. Muslim Apologists love to quote the praiseworthy
statements. They however, fail to reveal what 'nasikh al mansour','al-takiya' or 'muruna' is about.
6-Your trinity concept is not a more superior concept than the
absolute One God that the trinitarians also would want to believe.Your
only claim that Christianity is the truth is that Yeshua is revealing
himself to the Muslims.
The Trinity is not a concept to a Christian. It is simply the conclusion arrived at the evidence
the Bible points too. Why is the Lord complicated? I don't know. Make a generic prayer to the
God of Abraham to reveal himself to you. Yeshua also revealed himself to me in a dream after Parameswara 2 tried a 'sleight of hand' on me. After some prayer, i got an answer. Perhaps, i will share that on another topic.
the Bible points too. Why is the Lord complicated? I don't know. Make a generic prayer to the
God of Abraham to reveal himself to you. Yeshua also revealed himself to me in a dream after Parameswara 2 tried a 'sleight of hand' on me. After some prayer, i got an answer. Perhaps, i will share that on another topic.
7-True religion of God must be supported by reason and not
superstition like ‘,yeshua revealing himself to the people’.The creator
of the heavens and the earth is not desperate for us to believe in Him
that he has to come to reveal himself to us.What ever happen to his
people who he has sent to spread the message,all sleeping that God must
do this job himself?
God is not Supernatural? Thats news to me. Raising the Dead, Healing, Parting of the Dead
Sea,Visions, Dreams and Revelations are strewn throughout the Bible. Is that superstition?
Sea,Visions, Dreams and Revelations are strewn throughout the Bible. Is that superstition?
No, Yeshua is not desperate for us to believe in Him. He simply, bypasses those Imams,
Mullahs or Ulamas who spread lies, cause suffering, and goes direct. I would, if i was the
Lord and heard the cries of my people.
Mullahs or Ulamas who spread lies, cause suffering, and goes direct. I would, if i was the
Lord and heard the cries of my people.
Trinity is nothing more than as false a conjecture as Jesus being God. No clear statement in the Bible that says so, not a single one. The Council of Nicea surely was good at fabricating lies. Ironically, it is mentioned in the Quran:
ReplyDelete004:171 - O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
I respect that the Trinity will not be accepted or understood as
ReplyDeleteGod's nature. Ask the God of Abraham in prayer who he really is.
If Allah is 'explicitly' called 'al-makireena'. The Great Deceiver.
Please tell me why i should believe what the 'Prophet' said in any
verse of the Quran? In Revelation there is a creature called the
'Accuser of the Brethren'. Accusing the Council of Nicea of fabricating lies is broad statement based on an untenable benchmark. Using polemics to support your arguements is no different than the Pharasees trying to trap Jesus with questions with where the conclusion is pre-determined. As Ali Shabir says you cannot work your way backwords i.e. start with a conclusion 'Show me explicitly a verse where Jesus says I am God, Worship me' as absolute truth. Just because you decided that the Muslim brethen on the video said so. The 'Prophet' is right because he said so. I am supposed to believe because you said so.
You are argueing semantics because you don't agree with the wording. I respect your opinion. I do not agree with it
Yeshua explicitly refers to himself as 'i am' the name of God.
He task his diciples to baptize all nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. (not to Allah)
His diciples Peter and John concur in Acts 4:12 that
"12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
I am not commiting any excesses in my religion. Going to Heaven or Hell for Eternity is not something i take likely.
Shalom
In the name of Allah The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
ReplyDeleteYou know what, I think I am sick of this thing, this debating with you. This seems to bring us nowhere. If you are really seeking the truth, and you really do not take going to Heaven or Hell for Eternity lightly, how about you praying to The Only True God asking for guidance? Just do not mention any name in your prayer to whom you pray to, do not mention Jesus in your prayer and do not mention Allah either. Just say like,"O The Only True God, if You are there and if You hear me, please guide me to the truth." Please pray so daily with full of hope and with full of sincerity and with no arrogance. If Jesus really is the All-Hearing, he will answer your prayer. And likewise if Allah is the One which is the All-Hearing, God-willing he will answer your prayer. Does this sound fair enough?
Agreed,
DeleteThe conversation itself is worth its weight in gold. So often, dialog stops and hearts harden.
I did make a generic prayer a while back to God and asked if Muhammad was his messenger. It was a scary thing to do. Simply, i had asked Parameswara2 to to do the same. It was when i heard the voice of Jesus in my dreams. He said' I am Jesus' and i heard an infinite voices Angels proclaiming 'Jesus is Lord God' followed by a warmth of love like nothing i ever experienced all over my body. This is just my experience. I'm probably not a good candidate for conversion to Islam. I wish you do the same. Let me warn you, its a really scary thing to do. I know.
Shalom in Yeshuas Name